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questionable singing voice. don't make them inherited final expense tab to, um, zachary cohen in washington. and >> this is cnn closed, captioning brought to you by mesobook.com are firm only represents mesothelioma >> victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now today on inside politics, going on offense, vice president harris is on her way to >> arizona where she'll attack republicans for the state's civil war abortion ban. that could soon be back in effect. now it's an issue and to state that the biden campaign hopes will carry them to reelection plus, it's the final countdown. the people of the state of new york versus donald trump. it kicks off on monday. the former and perhaps future president will spend the next

two months in court fighting criminal charges. we have new reporting on team trump's plans for inside that courtroom and where does the republican go when fighting for political survival? mar-a-lago, of course, today, speaker mike johnson lands in florida, but will embracing trump's election denial protect johnson from the pitchforks in the house republican caucus. i'm adria cornish in for dana bash in washington, and we're going to head behind the headlines and inside hi politics. >> first >> first up vice president harris has a message for the people of arizona where abortion rights are rolling back to the time before x-rays and antibiotics. that message is donald trump did this and see you then priscilla alvarez, is there. give us a little sense about how the vice president will be talking about this today >> well, sources telling me that this is going to be an opportunity for the campaign to really hammer home what they say donald trump poses a

threat. he poses to personal freedoms. and also health care in tying these unpopular abortion bans directly to former president donald trump. now, we're prepared remarks that were shared with reporters. the vice president is expected to cast this state court ruling as one of the biggest aftershocks yet from the overturning of roe v. wade, she's also expected to say the following quote, donald trump is the architect of this healthcare crisis. and as much harm as he has already caused a second trump term would be even worse if donald trump gets the chance, he will sign a national abortion ban. how do we know? >> look at his record. congress tried to pass a national abortion ban before in 2017. >> and >> then president trump endorsed it. of course, the biden campaign sees abortion as a salient political issue that can mobilize voters especially in the critical battleground state of arizona. and in fact, the biden campaign launch an ad buy this week is some bigger ad buy here in the state following that court ruling, claiming,

again, putting the blame squarely on donald trump when it comes to the issue of abortion. and just moments ago, the vice president at putting out a fundraising email on this exact issue. two, so you can expect that she's got a package this message of the threats that donald trump poses, particularly on personal freedoms and health all around reproductive rights. here in tucson, arizona, later this afternoon, of course, democratic strategist tells me that ultimately this state court ruling serves as another data point in the democratic argument against republicans on this very issue. and one that she will be hammering home today >> write cnn's priscilla alvarez, thanks so much i want to. bring in my panel on this cnn's melanie zanona semaphores. dave, why goal and sung and kim of the associated press, welcome to all of you. >> all right. so vice president harris has tried to make this her issue. i think she's talked about being on a national tour. she has visited with abortion clinic providers. i want to

start with, you seung. then what does it say that she's the one who is being put forward on this message, is she more effective than biden in one way or another? >> i think democrats and the white house have believed she has been just by nature, a much more effective messenger than perhaps president biden himself. this is actually >> a particular groups >> or particular issues just out on abortion, especially. i mean, this because essentially put in our portfolio immediately after the dobbs decision in june of 22, we know that president biden, while he has been a supporter of abortion rights, his administration has done what they say. all they could to protect care in the aftermath of the dobbs decision, president biden, personally, as not always been comfortable with the idea of abortion he has, he is a devout catholic. he doesn't say the word a lot. he has said in private fundraisers. he's indicated in private fundraisers and discomfort with the whole issue and kamala harris being a woman, being a prosecutor who's dealt with a lot of these issues the biden administration the biden campaign feels she can prosecute this issue much more,

effectively than perhaps, perhaps the president would know in reaction to what's happened in arizona. it's very interesting because basically when they pass this bill, it was always baked in that this law from 18, 64 could come to the forefront. so everybody who voted for it knew this provision was buried get in there and at the same that means there's a ton of tape of them talking about lobbying for it. here's an example of then gubernatorial candidate kari lake back in 2022 i'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. i believe it's ars 13, so it will prohibit abortion in arizona except to save the life of a mother so now she's running for senate and of course, and she wants to appeal this law and democrats are already pointing out on social media sort of her past

comments. ruben gallego, the democrat who's running against her for senate, is among those. but specifically dave, he says, no amount of backpedaling will make us for get will this come off as backpedaling to voters? >> or i think it already has and the politics of this within the state are not going her way because if you're republican, if your blood probably believes in this and wanted to get rid of row one of the state to ban abortion, one you knew this is on the books for a long time. i interviewed the current attorney general, which was running three years ago. this might happen and why would you vote for a bill that waters this down? they already tried this, this week. the speaker of the house is running for congress in a safe conservative district is his interest to undermine something that the pro-life movement just won a generational multiple momentum, right? and you're starting to see the separation kari lake is part of this donald trump's partisan the one side separation from republicans who were very transactional and how they handle this, and republicans who believed it and down trump's has stumbled on this multiple ways this week, i

think laika started to two, but trump, even by saying that he endorses referendum and states which, which, which blake is going to take a position on the angered a lot of people in the pro-life movement who say this this is a issue of human life. this is not issue that you can put on direct. let me jump in there. you're bringing up referendums because the abortion rights activists are already collecting signatures in arizona to put a ballot referendum protecting abortion out there for november. but they join a long list of states who are doing this, including florida, maryland, nevada, new york, melanie, is this starting to actually shift the conversation about what's possible for let's say democrats in november? >> yeah absolutely. and talking to democratic sources on capitol hill, they see these ballot initiatives as a potential to juice turnout, particularly among some of these demographics who might sit out with, might not be enthusiastic to vote for biden, but they will get out for these ballot initiatives. and democrats are really expanding their battleground map because of it >> had the cook political report actually has we looked at their list of toss-up

districts. there were a number of states, arizona and new york included, where lawmakers may have to deal with a valid right? yeah. and some of those states that you're throwing up there, those are where the past when majority really runs. and in talking to republicans, oftentimes they will say things like, well, we just have a messaging problem and we just need a message better. but what's happening in arizona is a perfect example. it's not the message that's unpopular. it's the policy itself in this policy was because roe v wade was overturned. but is inadvertently son came is the message turning into to will support bands of 15 weeks? do you know what i mean? like right now in arizona, they're trying to create a choice that says, will repeal this law from 18, 64. and instead we'll have this restriction, this abortion ban up to 15 weeks, which to me says you're still some allowing for abortion. >> right? like, what is the message? which that's starting to coalesce >> i mean, that's a really good question because if you look at the, if you look at the referendum that arizona, arizona as are trying to put before voters in november that looks at protecting abortion

until viability, which is much further along than 15 weeks, is about 24 weeks. when a fetus is considered viable, especially in this context texts. so i think what that says to perhaps voters in arizona is that the republican party, it's still a party that largely wants to restrict access to the procedure regardless of whether it's this 18, 64 law. that's on the books that will go will be on the books in a matter of days he's or this 15 week ban, which is why republican strategist especially looking at voters in arizona, they're really hoping that if this referendum is on the ballot, that voters can make a dual decision. you know, they might support this referendum, but maybe they support donald trump at the top of the ticket because issues like the border and the economy are more important to them. >> but david, this is this is about turnout, getting people excited, and this, there's no message here that there's still fighting. how do you hold onto the energy on the right those abortion anti-abortion activists, while still telling

them, will pump the breaks. we don't want to go that far. no, it's a quandary. the trump campaign hasn't figured out yet. and one thing that democrats have been talking about, and we'll talk more about it. and arizona today next week throughout the election is this is not just up to the state's. there are a lot of policies that trump put in place in office when you had conservative lawyers and the doj and at chess that he that they expecting to bring back, but they're on record saying he's going to bring back biden created after before and after the fall of roe reproductive rights task force concern curtas, the heritage foundation, that to get rid of that and create a pro-life task force just like a biden has become more pointed trump did this, right, taking away your rights in the republican messages become sort of messier. melanie, i want to leave it to you. what does this mean for issues like migrants and crime? i mean, all of a sudden, kamala harris can march right up to the border the a border state when a few months? yeah. it would not have flown the same way. right? it's really interesting. arizona, because now abortion, immigration, who are, it's probably gonna be the two biggest issues in november broadly, you're seeing it most impacted in arizona. so that's

really becoming ground zero for both of these issues. and rafat, what they wanted, right? exactly. so you're going to see that republicans are going to try to seize on the border issue two, democrat seizing on abortion. but just like we're talking about, republicans need to address abortion democrats feel like they also need to address the border issue and say what they would do on immigration. also laying out legal pathways to citizenship, as are talking about trying to secure the border. so it's an issue that they're definitely have to wrestle with. >> all right. well, stay with us because we're gonna be talking about donald trump, who maybe out of legal tricks and out of time, jury selection in his hush money trial begins in just three days. we're going to take a look closer, look at what we can expect on monday in new york there's debris and this guy parents, husbands and wives gone >> wish i could've done something different. you can just make it better for those that follow space shuttle columbia, the final flight, two part finale, sainz, sunday at nine on cnn if you're moderate to severe crohn's disease or

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much to see >> if >> you are on alia or similar type of treatment. asked your retina specialist about ajleen hd today for the potential for fewer injections >> why more liebermann at the pentagon? and >> this cnn? >> after trying every legal option out there to delay his new york hush money case, the former president's first criminal trial is just three days away. this is an extraordinary moment in us history. a former president and presumptive presidential nominee is about to sit in court four days a week as a criminal defendant, all for allegedly covering up hush money payments to an adult film star before the 2016 election now, the judge says that the trial could last for two months. now, trump will have to be in court for all of it. and what happens? there could define the presidential election and who ultimately ends up in the oval office next year. so cnn's chief legal correspondent, paula reid is joining us now along again with

seung menn and david. thanks for staying with us. so first remind us which case this is not going to lie. there's so many what about this particular one? should we be looking out for? >> it's so funny even in this case, it's often referred to as the hush money case. >> but >> the district attorney's office doesn't like that. they're trying to rebranded as the 2016 election interference case. but at the heart of this case is this agreement, this hush money payment that was made to stormy daniels to keep quiet about her affair with then candidate trump. now there's nothing wrong with paying someone to keep quiet about a relationship that you had with them. >> a little weird, but yeah, it's >> it's look as it's not something that but for the grace of god, right? okay. moving on that big gaze is focused on how michael cohen was reimbursed for facilitating that hush money payments. so the charges are about falsifying business records. that's the alleged crime here, but people are actually mostly familiar in funds are just a court with his own funds. now,

to make it even more complicated, the argument is that these business records were falsified in an effort to interfere with the election in order to charge it says a felony, you have to argue that these were falsified but in furtherance of another crime, even though that crime is not charged and does not have to be proven. so it's a complicated case, but at a high level, this is about falsifying business records related to that hush money payment ahead of the 2016 election. all right. in terms of witnesses, who might we expect to see in court, a lot of familiar faces are potentially michael cohen, who is is that the center of this that will problematic witness given his continued comments about the former president has sustained for him, but he's at the center of this stormy daniels could potentially be called david, the former head of ami, which was helping to facilitate hush money payments to help trump's chances in the election to suppress negative stories. now there's also campaign officials who we know also worked in the white house, kellyanne conway, who pick so these are some folks that we could see on the witness stand throughout the course of this trial all right.

>> so i want to bring in >> the group here because we were just sort of joking about like, which one is this? and it is interesting. sarah longwell has a pollster, full disclosure, self-described, never trump or she was saying that when she was talking to voters, that they kind of look at this case a little bit differently. >> just the word porn star, which you're going to hear over and over again, is just the kind of thing that makes people laugh it off is not serious even though this is about corporate checks being passed and trying to hide things before an election. so it didn't get out even though that's what it's about. it's the voters are going to interpret this one more. i think a little bit more through trump's frame as this is i'm trying to get me on something silly than they would, something like the january 6 case or the documents case where when they ago taken singularly, seem more serious to voters than this one does dave, i want to put this question to you because again, this out of the way because i think she's got a point. you

say porn star and people all of a sudden, it's something different. how are you hearing it as you're out reporting? >> well, the important thing for republicans is they've already built over years a superstructure for everything. trump is accused, everything he's in court four, which is the deepstate, is trying to take out donald trump and it's true for their base. that is how everything is handled. compared this to 2016, you could find democrat saying, i'm going to vote for hillary clinton, but i am my concerns about how she handled her email. you cannot find that in the republican party. they will say everything he's accused of is a ruse and they've doing this because they can't beat him fairly. look at the polls that i think does obscure the pole switch, say, most people rotary ipsos last week politico, everyone who polls this finds most voters, most independence don't like the idea of what trump is accused of and don't like the idea of him being convicted. yes. and this is relevant because the one he might be a victim for the election, those voters thinking that trump charges are serious well, i want to ask one other thing. trump has proved that he can wield court appearances, right and create a kind of spectacle with them so

sung-min, what does that mean for what is going to be this kind of daily case do you think that there's more spectacle to come? and if so, what does the biden white house, if anything? do about it? right? i mean, we are in a very historic moment here next week. so it's going to consume a lot of public oxygen, a lot of the political oxygen. this will be asked about basically everywhere you go, whether it's at the whether it's on capitol hill or at the white house are on the campaign trail. but what the biden campaign's going to do is really steer focus away from that when they've tried to make the contrast with donald trump, they actually haven't talked too much about his specific legal troubles. they like to make the contrast with what he would do an office if elected as it also plays into the deep state conspiracy, much. >> so next week they're going to really focus on tax issues biden's traveling to pennsylvania, obviously a key state november. so you're going to hear a lot of that. it might not get the attention purpose >> paul, i want you to have the last word because more than 500

men had nights have gotten notices to appear in the criminal court. they've gotta select 12. trump has always made a lot of hay about who's on juries where the jurisdiction is that the means something thing. but how should we think about what's happening in new york? >> it's a daunting process to try to whittle this group down to a group of 12 impartial jurors and then some alternatives impartial felt like the world's most famous person exactly. and you're, it's not, you can't be argued that he is likely at a disadvantage here in terms of the fact that he is the most famous person in the world most people are familiar with this, and there is an anti-trump sentiment, right? within this, this jury pullet price skews anti-trump evening. you find people who did vote for him and continued to support him. so they're going to go and it only takes us. >> right. exactly. and you change things exactly. and i think that it's going to take a couple of days to go through 100 people at a time. i'm in whittle them down, but the defense look, they are at a disadvantage. his side gets ten preemptive talent challenges. but if you're already dealing with a pool that is slightly

skewed against your client. that's that's a disadvantage, but the judge has found that look, this is not going to prevent you from getting a fair trial here, but i think it is an open question about whether they will definitive please be a conviction. and that's not based on the feelings or opinions to the jury pool. that's basically they call that a felony has been rupture of the case. yeah. >> well, we're gonna be talking about this a lot for days and days and days over the next few months, please watch cnn for special live coverage of the trump hush money trial. you can actually see it monday they at 10:00 a.m. eastern, right here on cnn and also on streaming on macs now ahead, donald trump will host embattled speaker mike johnson and florida later today, as the gop led house swirls in turmoil sunday night of space for stoma whole story with anderson cooper, the james >> webb telescope are we alone? followed by the two part finale of space shuttle columbia both

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logo or start your design today, had custom make.com, or how solomon in new york. >> and this is cnn it's the buildup before the kiss up later today, house speaker mike johnson will make a joint appearance with donald trump at mar-lago there'll be pushing fears of illegal voting by noncitizens despite little evidence that that's an issue. but it may be trump's priority. house speaker johnson. it's probably his own job security that's important to him as fellow republican marjorie taylor greene continues her campaign to oust him. so we're going to bring in too great reporters to talk about this. cnn's lauren fox on capitol hill, also cnn's kristen holmes is in west palm beach, florida. lauren, i wanted to

start with you speaker johnson travels to florida. he's going to stand side-by-side with trump, but it's kind of a delicate time for him to do so, right >> yeah. it's a delicate time, perhaps it but perhaps it's also the best time for him to do this as there were a lot of questions swirling around whether or not he is going to continue to keep his speaker's gavel as he continues to try to pass several priorities in the next couple of weeks, what we are seeing today is this fight over fisa, the federal intelligence surveillance act renewal happening on capitol hill. and just a few hours ago even before this votes starting, you saw marjorie taylor greene. you can see are there on the bottom left of your screen width speaker mike johnson, they had this very lengthy you back and forth. it's unclear precisely what they were talking about, but i asked johnson about it later and said, you know, wishy applying pressure to you. what was she trying to ask? for >> any said that >> they usually agree in terms of conservative priorities, but

that they sometimes disagree about the strategy and the best way to implement their policy ideas. and obviously this has been something that's been going on for the last several weeks. >> and it's just >> not clear if marjorie taylor greene he's going to try to bring and force this effort to oust us speaker mike johnson at anytime. she could do so. that is part of the reason that johnson sort of needs this backup, this moment, this photo op of him and donald trump's someone who still has a stranglehold on the conservatives here on capitol hill. so that is what you are going to see playing out, play out today. he was asked specifically johnson he was whether or not he was going to ask donald trump for advice about this question of his ousting. here's what he said >> are you planning on speaking with president trump? >> the motion to vacate >> i don't ever comment on my private conversations that president trump, but i'm looking forward to going to florida and smith >> interestingly thank johnson

also would not say when or how ukraine aid is going to pass on the floor. that's another issue that donald trump has been railing against. >> an obviously something we're going to be keeping a close eye on because it could have a huge impact adi on whether or not he's able to keep his job >> kristen holmes, i want to ask you, we know what what mike johnson wants out of this, but what's in it for trump? >> i think what trump has given an opportunity to talk about how the 2020 election was stolen, or how election systems are rigged. he's going to take it particularly it gives some gravitas to the situation to have two top republicans, really the top two republicans right now to stand side-by-side and their first press conference and talk about it. now, i do want to talk a little bit about what exactly they are saying. because one of the big things that they are willing to talk about it this idea of non-citizens voting what they say they're going to get attention to stay proposals and lawsuits that might make that an issue, as you said, there's

no indication it is an issue anywhere and i want to be very clear. there is currently a federal law banning not on citizens from voting in federal elections, which are the only elections that these two menn really are focusing on at this time. however, it has become somewhat of a rallying cry for republicans, donald trump himself has gone far enough to say that democrats want on documented immigrants crossing the border in order to help them in the 2024 elections. now there are some nuances here. there are some cities and some states that are allowing noncitizens to vote in very particular local elections. one of those being school board elections just serve the idea. but there is no indication that this is a widespread issue. >> all right, kristen, thanks so much bringing back my panel here. what i'm interested in is what they're not talking about. ukraine aid or just about anything else. so melanie, help us understand what how is this helpful to johnson other than maybe protective? yeah. does it help with any of the array of things

he's trying to pass so i've actually been told that some allies to johnson have counseled him to try to keep trump in the loop on anything he plans to do on ukraine and that they really want trump's buy-in >> because i think there is a recognition here that trump can make or break not only the legislation, but also mike johnson's speakership. now it's an open question whether trump can get behind anything johnson has floated the idea of turning the aid into the loan, which is something trump has previously expressed support for us. so we'll see, but johnson is trading at very carefully here on all of these issues that we're talking about, feel like there's a timer over speaker johnson's office, right? like i've count timer what's your sense of how this can help him again, somewhat like a marjorie taylor greene who is very well known for having trump's ear or at least is having him having hers, right? >> right. well, i mean, having johnson and trump stand side-by-side, i think is the hope is that even with someone like marjorie taylor greene hanging this the threat of a motion to vacate over speaker johnson said that trump is

ultimately the one in charge here. maybe he can how solar her away from making that decision because i think we know that having another leadership fight in this election year will be absolute chaos for the republican party. and most republicans, especially in an election year, do not want that donald trump doesn't want that they, he, he knows this is not going to be helpful to his reelection chances. so even just that visual of those two men standing side-by-side projective, not unity it feel could be helpful to johnson at the end of the day, you've last word to you, is there any incentive to pass anything like donald trump won a productive congress know, in the senate, we're seeing that any progress towards some for attacks you by the end of the year is being killed because republicans one, donald trump to win. there, there are not many incentives for anything getting done from johnson perspective, though, he's going to keep getting embarrassed by something or other ease, lost a lot of conservatives, light green over, over the hanly spending bills. but next week we're going to see they may work impeachment effort problem i probably die in the senate, not 100% sure yet, marjorie taylor greene says she's going to

bring it back up in the house of it fails. so his his calendar every time they're in session, there is going to be something that he loses on that irritates at maybe the entertainment wing of the party. you could call it the people on talk radio online who want wins and are angry. this guy can't deliver them, feels like watching someone stepped on it great over and over. it can't. >> next new reporting on how trump's economic plan for a second term could send the us into a recession, going to write down the numbers for you what's, it like to hear from the people actually living the headlines i'm adi cornish, my cnn podcast. we'll talk to the people behind the trending stories. >> i've got a >> lot of questions. >> your assignment with body cornish. listen wherever you get your i won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me emerge as you withdrawn via most people saw >> 90% clear skin, eye, four and the majority's stay clearer. i'd five years, >> cbs allergic reactions may occur, can fire, may increase

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biden administration announced another round of student loan forgiveness. this morning. this time it's $7.4 billion in debt for 277,000 borrowers. now the supreme court blocked a much broader biden effort on student debt. but as election day nears, the administrator patient has ramped up its efforts to wipe clear the debt of millions of americans and the white house says in total, it's efforts have now helped 4.3 million people. now, we want to take a look today at one of the many ways that this election could impact your life, especially economically. so we're also having new reporting about donald trump's economic policies specifically tariffs and what they could do to the economy. trump has floated a 10% across the board tariff on imports from anywhere and an even bigger 60% tariff on all goods coming from china. now that's on top of 100% tariff on foreign cars in a worst-case scenario, some economists fear that those plans could trigger a recession

cnn's matt egan is here with his new reporting okay. matt, help us square this. what are you seeing? >> well, audie, remember trump loves tariffs so much that he dubbed himself the tariff man. >> and he has made clear that >> if he wins in november, the tariff man sequel will be even bigger than the original. remember, a tariff is a tax on imported goods and he's floated this 60% tariff on inputs, imports from goods from china. >> so that means if you we're buying, let's say, a chinese made bicycle or sneakers you'd be paying a lot more and these plans are not sitting well with some economists who are >> warning that this could really do some damage here. now, moody's told cnn that trump's trade policies would kill 675,000 jobs if they were for enacted that they would shrink gdp, they would lift the unemployment rate and they would also make inflation worse. and that's even if trump used the new revenue from these tariffs, the fund tax cuts now, this is not just

coming from moody's, goldman sachs warned its clients as well that trump's tariffs could a lift inflation, and slow gdp. i talked to an economists from the right-leaning tax foundation who told me that this is just a bad policy and it's likely the worst and most damaging part of trump's economic agenda. >> now we >> should note there is a lot of uncertainty here. we don't know how much of trump's trade proposals are just threats. how much of this is bluster are real? we also don't really know how other countries would respond, but there's no reason to think that they would take this lying down, especially not china and listen, timing is important, right? >> tariffs are >> already high, inflation is already high. this does seem like a risky time to make them even higher so how much bigger are these proposals compared to the tariffs that president biden actually kept on, right from the trump era on chinese goods it gives us a sense of the scale here well, it is

telling that those tariffs remain in place because remember this is a white house that it's searching for ways to show that they are >> attacking inflation and one way to lower the cost of goods would be to lower some of these terrorists. but that has not happened for the large part. these trump era tariffs. dave, remain intact and that's because tariffs have become a bipartisan tool. trump does have legitimate gripes here when it comes to china and trade a, we hear from democrats and business leaders who were also concerned about china's alleged intellectual property theft dumping goods at artificially low prices. these are very bipartisan concerns and one expert told me that listen trade has become toxic to both parties and addi, there's no reason to think that that's going to change. no matter who wins the election. november the question is whether or not tariffs are going to go even higher. and that is certainly what the trump campaign is signaling. >> all right. matt egan, thank you. >> thanks >> and coming up, rfk junior, the most inside or outsider, it

seems to be winning over swing voters in key states we're going to hear from voters in michigan who say they plan to flip from biden kennedy >> laura coates live tonight at 11 eastern on cnn it's a new day. >> one. we're our shared values propel us towards a more secure future through august of partnership built upon cutting-edge american, australian, and british technologies we'll develop state of d'arte next generation submarines, build something stronger together security, dickey peace and prosperity for it. america and our allies. we are going forward instead, award together not flossing well, then add the wo of listerine to your routine. new science shows. listerine is five times more effective than floss at reducing flats above the gum line for a cleaner, healthier

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gutters for good, call a33 leaf filter, revisit lee filter.com today are you for all-star teams returned for a waterfront redemption showdown. >> like in a >> brand, but only one will make us flash. i think we nailed it, rocked the bloc season finale monday night at nine on hgtv >> the presidential election isn't just between joe biden and donald trump. the threat of an independent candidate, robert f. kennedy jr. is actually posed to both candidates and he's in double-digits in most national polls. and i want to hear from, you who i want you to hear directly from a group of swing voters in pennsylvania because they flipped from trump in 2016 to biden in 2020 and so they're very much up for grabs four of

the six and the group said they pick kennedy over biden and trump neither of them is a viable candate i almost just roll the dice with kennedy and just see what would happen. >> he has a lot of attributes of robert and john f. kennedy so i feel that he would be the best choice out of the fight. there. >> i'm really tired of biden and i'm not going to vote for trump. so to me it would be put someone new in there. let's come up with some new ideas. >> all right, thanks to engage us and say go for that grew by panel is back with me. i tend to think of third-party candidates as people who have like a movement policy eas behind them. whereas this is a little bit of like, well not one of those dudes so what have you be learning about? what the curiosity is for these can these right? >> right. we, friday peoples story this week i talked to a lot of voters and a lot of these voters are very disenchanted with both biden

and trump so aa minimum, there is a curiosity among voters saying they don't want to support trump. again, ey're unhappy with what president biden has done an office so that at least what to know more about rfk. and i think we're still collecting the data on who this hurts more biden or trump who rfk hurts more. in a general general election contest, but i do think there is that appeal of the kennedy name you know, people don't know a lot of are the attributes, right? ryan, robert in it? >> the attributes added like the name >> kennedy, right? david, i want to ask you because we know that there was an rfp junior campaign staffer who was actually fired because she was caught telling voters that her number one priority was to prevent a biden victory. why was this a significant moment? was found by a democrat, independent democrat work on his own who just doesn't like kennedy is trying to undermine him. and the democratic party elevated it. the democrats have a playbook. they've used it in a couple of elections, sometimes not successfully of taking a third-party candidate who's not very well-defined and emphasizing all of these

right-wing views to convince democrat those voters really people who might motivated just to come back and events that third party takes from democrats that not everyone who's voting for kennedy or says they would, is going to vote democratic, but some will, and they can, they convince the soft voter who just doesn't like the way things are going, but it's doesn't want trump back. no, this is actually lee way to get trump back. that is their entire entire game plan. everything they're doing. this is less smith and a couple people at the dnc doing this. all their opposition research at the moment about kennedy's emphasizing rightly and things he is endorsed because if you look at his paid media so far, including the super bowl ad, i have totally no content is they are just that his name is kennedy. he's kennedy. he's not donald trump and joe biden, they want to say yes and certified that i think is the entity family was actually quite upset and they found out their polling that when people hear the kennedys don't support them, that that alone gets people to move off of him very confident that work. so i want to follow up on something you said, though, because donald trump has actually i think made

some comments on truth social about rfk junior, where he is essentially calling him radical left >> are okay. junior is as you know, the most radical left candidate in the race. he's more so than the green party. he's more so than even cricket joe biden, if i were democrat, i'd vote what for rfk junior, every single time over biden felony, i don't want to turn this into some sort of 3d chess situation like the saying this, and they're saying that. so when you hear that, what comes to mind? >> well, listen when you talked to trump allies and trump's campaign, they're not so sure that this is a clear cut spoiler for biden. they're a little skeptical, a little worried yeah, because it's a big anti-vax continue. all right that's what we came up. he said some things >> that appeal more to the maga bass. he's been sympathetic to january 6, defenders and riders. and so they're not entirely sure and it is a risk to try to elevate him and try to trump anyway but you exceed trump can't always help

himself when he says he would because he and his truth social post, that he would be good for the maga movement and that he loves that he's running. so trump clearly feels like this is potentially a win for him, but we haven't just seen evidence just yet that republicans are taking this as serious of a threat as the democratic party is. >> and we know because they'd spend money, right? i mean, is that think about it. >> other overall theory is that this look down, trump has never gotten more than 50% of the vote that the double-haters that we heard a lot about in 2016 to hearing more about now partisans but eaters those voters at any vote that's not providing is great. it's off the board. that is their overall theory and they're, and they're being cautious about this. they're trying to elevate in lower ways more obvious left-wing threats to biden like cornell west, like jill stein, emphasizing from jill stein's perspective, and i talked to her about this that she, that she wants talk about how joe biden's drilling more than donald trump did. are allowing more, i should say not personally there's a number of

sort of soft spot. they're more confident elevating those this isn't saying, hey, if you're left-wing democrat and madison or in an arbor, please pay attention to cornel west and jill stein because that worked for them in 2016, kennedy is more of an x-factor. >> all right. well, thank you to the group for talking with me today. i had a lot of funny. i appreciate it. >> if you'd like talking about politics, i do too. thanks for joining inside politics, cnn, news, central starts after the break, before you go, i just want to invite you to listen to my podcast, the assignment we're gonna be talking this weekend with the movie director alex garland about his new film, the civil war, which is about partisanship, the threat of us divisions you can get new episodes of the show wherever you get your podcasts. thanks so much

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